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Real Talk FUMC Pearland
Welcome to “Real Talk", a podcast with an increased intentionality on having honest conversations about faith, church and the real conflicts that surround the complicated realities of today. We invite those who are curious, cautious and considering faith into deeper conversations, even if we don't always agree.
Real Talk FUMC Pearland
Relationships Matter w/ Rev. Reggie Clemons & Rev. John McClure
Relationships play an integral role in the lives of many believers today. What is it about the authentic and vulnerable connection between two people that reveal God’s love? How might we lean into more relationships in an effort to understand ourselves and Christ’s work in us? Join Pastor Thea, Pastor Reggie and Pastor John McClure for an honest conversation about relationships that matter.
This Episode Topics Include:
When and how was faith introduced into your life?
How have relationships impacted your faith?
What does Jesus offer regarding relationships?
How do real relationships lead to real discipleship?
What barriers do we place between ourselves and real relationships today?
What steps can we take to try and remove them?
What hopes do you have regarding meaningful relationships today?
What steps are you taking now to help make those a reality?
Join the Conversation:
Reach out to the guest and/or hosts by emailing:
theac@fucmpearland.org or rclemons@fumcpearland.org.
Visit www.fumcpearland.org to learn more.
Want more information about FUMC Pearland? Check us out at fumcpearland.org
Welcome to Real Talk, a podcast offered by First United Methodist Church, paralign, where we strive to have real conversations about our real faith. I'm Pastor Thea, and today I'm joined by my colleagues, co-pastors and friends, reverend Reggie Clemens and Reverend John McClure. Jim, I'm going to reintroduce yourselves and tell us why you said you wanted to share your faith today.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thea, and hey, john. I'm glad to be here, glad to be able to just be able to have some real talk about faith, about how we feel, about the things that we truly believe Currently. I've been at the church in Paralign for 24 years, happy to be there, happy to be part of that Love, that church Love the people Always have. I've kind of agreed for us to be able to do this, not only me personally but as a church, because I think authenticity in today's society, and certainly in our community, is desperately needed. So thanks for doing this and thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm John McClure, associate pastor at First United Methodist Church. I was excited to do this because of the topic. I think that's the number one thing. Relatives are a huge part of what we do as we share our faith, as we live out our faith in the world, and so I was excited about that, and I've never done a podcast before, so this is pretty fun.
Speaker 2:Awesome, yeah. So that's what we're going to talk about today relationships, and how and why they matter when it comes to faith, and I thought we could start with us each sharing how faith was introduced to your life and how relationships have been a part of that journey. So, reggie, you want to start?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can start with that. Faith was introduced to my life at a very early age. When I say early age, I'm probably from birth. I've always been affiliated with some church or some aspect of organized religion. John will laugh because I love to tell the story about every other year. I spent my summers in Longview, texas, with my grandmother and we truly went to Pleasant Green Missionary Baptist Church every Sunday. I won't go into the other detail about that, but it was just a glorious experience very small church but very loving church. In Houston. I grew up in the United Methodist Church, in a neighborhood church, and, having always been affiliated and associated with it, it truly is something that built a foundation for me and I truly think that it's something that's needed. Even if people make decisions later in life it's not what they want it's still something, I think, particularly for children and young people to be introduced to so that they can make their own decisions.
Speaker 4:Well, I grew up in churches where I was talking about I really don't know if I can I can't remember a time where church wasn't a part of my life.
Speaker 4:Now, my parents being divorced when I was three, my dad, my dad's, his regular attending to another church was different than my mom's, of course, but in that grew up in the United Methodist Church in Atlanta, texas and then also in the Baptist Church in Atlanta, texas, so I kind of got both sides of small town I guess theology would be the best way to put it but in that I would say probably some of the biggest if you talk about relationship-wise things that were formative and things like that would probably be definitely the relationships I built at church camp, growing the leg view, but then also being a part of a thing called Chrysalis when I was in high school and that was really just men and women that were from the Mayus community pouring into students, and so I didn't grow up with youth group being a part of any church that I was in.
Speaker 4:Really, we had one that was run basically by students when I was in a little small town in called Mall Texas, but nothing like where there was a paid personal staff or anything like that, to these students, and so I think that also goes in a lot of why for the longest time I've been in student ministry.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I've shared my story multiple times. I didn't really grow up with a strong faith, definitely no regular church attendants, except my grandmothers, both my father's mother and my mother's mother. My father's mother took me to Catholic mass every now and then and my mother's mother took me to a Presbyterian church that had children, sunday school and a children's message, and I remember feeling like, oh okay, well, this is a place for me, there's something to do here. But those were sporadic and in between I did have some friends in high school that were going to the Baptist church and loved it and invited me along and I tried it and didn't feel really welcome, didn't feel really spoke, you know, didn't really speak to me, and so just decided I don't need this.
Speaker 2:I had a nominal faith that definitely believed that God existed. I believe that Jesus was a son of God come to set us free. But I didn't really know what that meant. And for me it was through relationships that I made, actually overseas, with some Christians in the Czech Republic, who started to reveal to me that they had like a relationship with God and I had never heard that idea, had never been seen it, never experienced it, and I remember as they were willing to have a relationship with me and reveal that relationship they had. I began to want that and to even dare to dream it could be possible that not only I could have a real relationship with these people, these good, you know, god loving people, but that the same good God would want to have a relationship with me.
Speaker 2:And it was then. You know, it wasn't a, it wasn't a Paul instant conversion, it was an ongoing of. I had this relationship with these people. I began to form new relationships with new people and the more that I was willing to show up to those human relationships, I felt like I was able to better understand this relationship that God was offering me and was willing to extend to me. And I wonder if there's something about this Jesus right, this idea of God in the flesh come to dwell amongst us, to live in our realm, to eat, to keep, you know, live the life that we do, and how we see his life in connection, in relationship, how that really has maybe translated to you of this idea that relationships might mean something important.
Speaker 3:You know, I'll tell you I don't know how much of an impact the whole concept of Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit had on me as a child as it relates to relationships, but I can truly tell you that I did feel that the church is where you actually were able to enter into really meaningful relationships.
Speaker 3:I can tell you today, even at my age, I still remember most of not all of my Sunday school teachers, and I can remember specific lessons and things that we did. I can remember the kids that I was involved in with and at that time, particularly in Houston being a large city having a number of the same kids that you were in school with also in your church was something that was pretty important and it actually happened a lot. So we were engaged not only in school, we were also engaged at church, and so, remembering those and those relationships that were developed, some of those friendships I still have today from that standpoint. So I can truly tell you that it's not like osmosis. Yet I do feel that one of the important thing about me understanding the value of relationships did take place because I was involved in a church setting and so and that still has a lot of value to me- yeah.
Speaker 4:I think Jesus is I mean, I think the disciples is a big thing for me. I'll never forget being like I think that's probably about a junior high school when.
Speaker 4:I came to the realization of, honestly, like how screwed up the disciples were, because you grow up like when you grow up, I say felt bored all the time, like you had to felt bored with all the little things on it, and so you learned all the Bible stories that way.
Speaker 4:And so these were these people that were on pedestals, and I'm not saying they don't need to be put on pedestals, but it also continues to remind me how much we work on ourselves and still have room to go, and so the relationships that we have with one another and with Christ as we're going through, continue to push us on to grow.
Speaker 4:I think that's the biggest part of it for me is just to take this motley crew of people and that be the chosen ones to carry it on and to follow. I guess gives you hope in a way, and also, at the same time, has the ability to sit and say maybe sometimes we look in the wrong areas for people to pour into, maybe we don't look out as far as we should. I think we have the ability to sometimes look through different lenses rather than the lens that Jesus would, and so I think when we do reach out, when we have those relationships, for understanding someone's worth is just being a creation of God. So you have worth like in those things when you're able to pour into them, and that I think it makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that you brought up you said you know, like being the chosen, because I feel like the chosen series offers this real glimpse of a real disciple as these real humans. And I remember one of the scenes that really got me was that all the disciples are together and Jesus is healing the crowd and they start to bicker and to well, you're this and you're that, and who do you think you are? And that was one of the first times that I realized, oh, they didn't all magically get along. They were so different. They'd all been called mostly individually. A few brothers right Came together but they had been living. Yes, they were all Jews but they had been in the same era but they had been living different lives.
Speaker 2:And so you put these people together and I do believe it's that idea of you rub up against each other right Is actually where you you become more discipled, having to deal with people who are different than you, who see God differently or experiencing God differently. But not only the rough edges, but like the soft edges too, like back to my own experience. It was this softness, this relationship loving, kind, nurturing, protecting, providing God that was revealed to me through these relationships with these other Christians that suggested to me that God was that way for me, and so I think it's it's kind of both right. I really believe that it's through one another that God is revealed and reflected, and so if you are not having real relationships getting close enough where both the sharp edges and the soft spots can rub up against you, then I think you're missing out on a deepening there.
Speaker 4:Well, and I think that you know, the only thing I can say is the give and take that comes in relationships, because it is, it is an aspect of of learning all those edges that you're talking about of someone, and in that you'd hope that you would grow and that some of those things would come out as well.
Speaker 4:I think that as we pour into people, we also learn about ourselves. I think that that's been something that, especially in the last year, that's been interesting to me is that, as new relationships are formed and as we've been able to, with Georgia being born, who's now eight months old, I mean there's a whole new section of people that we now interact with, whether it be at daycare or whether it be. You know, and I think sometimes we take and we push off small conversations if they don't mean anything, when ultimately those can have effects on people's day longer than what you think, because it doesn't come full circle. So you've started it and then you have longer to think about it and then when you come back, you're coming back with it too, so you don't get to see all those edges that you're talking about. You just get a glimpse of it. When, I think, when you're able to be in a relationship closer, you get to fill that out and grow together a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. How do you see relationships, you know, aiding in your, in discipleship? I mean, we believe that relationships matter, we believe that we exist, our church, to build those relationships. Why is that kind of such a key and even, we could argue, first step of a discipleship?
Speaker 3:There's probably several reasons that are, you could pretty much say I think are important, but one is the ability to be able to talk to one another and share with one another why you are where you are, and not only why you are where you are, but where you aspire to go. To me is a requirement that I have a willingness to sit down and be in your presence, which, to me, relationships are a lot about presence, about being present with one another. I think that, particularly as we look at this from a faith-based perspective, our ability to share and learn about Jesus and about God and about the Holy Spirit and what it does in our lives today, is really based a lot upon experiences people are having today and that they can share those things and they can share that witness with one another, which, to me, is what helps build and strengthen those relationships. I think that where we are right now is that there is such a feeling of isolation from so many different people that people think that I'm going through something and I'm the only one that's going through this and I'm the only one that's dealing with it and I haven't been able to find an answer. Therefore, there must not be an answer. I think relationships combat that and actually show that that's not even accurate. That's not true. That's one of those things that the devil does to make you know he exists, to truly allow you to see that you're by yourself and you're really not. So relationships help eliminate this isolationist attitude that we can sometimes have.
Speaker 3:Now it's kind of interesting. We may take that to mean that if I am willing to be involved and willing to be present and willing to share that, then I'm gonna always agree with this person and always get along with this person. And that's never happened. That's never happened in anything we've ever done and it's not gonna happen now from that standpoint. But I think what it does do is it opens ourself up to be willing to do that, to truly be able to get along even if we disagree, and I think that's what's critical.
Speaker 3:At least that's kind of how I see it. So I can truly tell you that every relationship I've been in has not been good. They've not all been good. Some of them have been pretty bad, in fact, or whatever. But again, I think the willingness to say, well, I guess I could have taken the attitude. I had a bad relationship, therefore I will never have another one, and I think it teaches you that, yeah, we can get past that. There may be some things, people, that we say maybe it's best that we don't, for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean that I cut myself off from everybody. So what do you think, John?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean the relationship side of stuff I talk a lot about, especially with volunteers, earning the right to speak into people's lives. I think that there was a time where, especially in small towns, where the church was what everybody did on Sunday mornings and what are you doing? I mean, Sunday was kind of kept away from, Wednesday nights were kept away from. That's what happened and in that people would go and people of the church could be trusted like you did this, you did that, and that was kind of the church that I felt like I grew up in.
Speaker 4:I think as I've gotten older I've realized that, especially students now that I work with, that's not exactly how they feel about the church, and I think that that's one of the areas that we talk about is that with this they're not gonna show up and say yes, sir, no sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, and you're sitting up in front of them. So because of that, all of a sudden you have this authority area and I can say that's the church I grew up in. I mean, when someone showed up and they were the teacher, that's who you listened to, that's who you would show that to, and I don't necessarily know everything that got us there, to where we are, and, ultimately, I think that one of the things we talk about is that that ultimately doesn't matter, because that's where we are right. Right.
Speaker 4:And so now when we talk, I'm like, okay, but did you ask them how they're weak? With. Did you ask them what happened this week? There might be a reason. This kid is on their phone with headphones in. They might have a horrible morning, Like why are they at the place that they're at? And let's start there and then we can move somewhere else. People have bad days. We have bad days. I think that in those when we talk about real relationships, we have to talk about real people. People are not robots. Right.
Speaker 4:And so in that earning the ability to pour into somebody I think happens in those relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you mentioned too, I think, that when you're willing to build a real relationship, you can see the reality of people's human. Then it actually moves the teacher from just a blank authority figure into a human being who might actually have had some experience with this topic that they're sharing about, right, and so kind of moves it out of a task and into reality, which I would argue is a really important piece of the work that we do, the work that we strive to do, as well as that we invite others into of. Hey, this is not about check off the boxes. We say that all the time. This is about revealing your real self in a way that others would see the real Christ in you, right To see that God's real work in you when you're willing to reveal that. But what are the barriers that we put up? We, the church, we church leaders, we Christians, believers, people what are the barriers and why?
Speaker 4:I think you have to admit that it's hard. You know what if people don't like you, like what if they're not willing to talk to you? What if they're not willing to listen? I mean, I've talked to Reggie about that. It still happens. Like I'll write sermons and go back and just take and like, well, what if somebody takes us wrong, like, and I think that I get to the point, through prayer and everything, where I'm like God, this is this is what you want me to say, like, this is where we are, and then those conversations that can come from that later on, like her, big, and so I think that I think that sometimes we are our own worst enemies when it comes through these relationships.
Speaker 4:Um, I will say that Amy Goodrow will be the first one to tell you that she's told me more than anybody to get out of my head. That's my mom. Um, because I'll overthink Everything. I mean you're laughing because you know it's true. Um, and, and I thank God for relationships like yours. Well, so there you're in your head or you're being too emotional, those things. So I mean, I think that's that's part of it. I think that's a barrier. It's sometimes us.
Speaker 3:Well, and this may be a church thing or just a normal every day thing, but relationships will expose your vulnerabilities and we don't necessarily want to be seen as vulnerable. Uh, that let someone inside of us and we don't necessarily want that. Uh, I'd almost rather have this facade that you see me. Uh, that it's not. It's not necessarily who I am, but it's actually who I want to present myself to you to be. So I can do that. If we are not necessarily close or don't actually have a relationship, then and it's almost acceptable to do that, uh, but if we're going to have a relationship, then it's got to be deeper. And then I've got to allow you to truly see me really, how I feel about things and how I look at the world and and how. So how I have fears and concerns and other stuff. That's always not very pleasant conversation, uh, and again, particularly if I'm now, maybe I wouldn't have a problem if I'm talking to you about you because I'm listening to you about you, uh, but talking about me. That's where the fight got started, uh, I know where it got dangerous, right? So I think the church basically is going to to certainly not only touch on that. The church is going to be about that, because Jesus was about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so when you have that almost as a requirement, uh, it's going to create some problems with some people and then, on the total, 180 from that, it's like the thing that I think is impeaced relationships within the church is this whole air of almost authoritarianism to where, well, not only do people want to look at us like we have the answer, but sometimes let's, unfortunately, sometimes we want to feel like we have the answer, uh, and so if we do that, then that pretty much means that, well, I'm right, or you think I'm right, or whatever. What would have from wrong or what if it's not right? Uh, at that point, then that takes me away from being a person in the know or in authority or whatever. Now, personally, I certainly believe that Jesus was an authority or whatever. I think just based upon, like you were saying today, john, and we read and watch the chosen, watch just about any movie you want to watch through by Jesus. Certainly you can see the disciples really weren't authoritarian figures. Uh, they were. They were like you and me. Uh, they were trying to figure it out too.
Speaker 3:Uh, and it's almost like if, if the church could just become this place, uh, where we were all just admit that we are all there trying to figure it out, then I think we could actually have greater relationships than we do. But I think that we all come in with this stuff that we have to truly say I have to have a certain amount of expertise, or have to be at a certain level, uh, to be able to be accepted. And I think that if, if there's any place that shouldn't be that way, it should be the church, because the church should be getting us to a point that we know we come in there basically saying right off the bat you are accepted by God. God truly has accepted you, no matter where you are, how you are, no matter how worthless you may think you are. So if we're all there, then everything is up from there. Now, I think that's sometimes difficult because, uh, honestly, institutions don't work like that.
Speaker 4:Well, that becomes an impediment. But I said this um to somebody not along, I mean, it's probably been about four months ago and I think you talk about that, talking about the institution itself. I mean, I think a lot of that's set by tone and I think that, more than anything, the tone, especially from leadership, has been that, as we've gone through this um, as we've gone through the last year or so, and I had somebody ask me, they were like so you know well, if you, if you could have the church focus on anything right now, what would it be? And I was like well, jesus, and I said that's the one thing I love right now is is that everything we're talking about from when the pulpit, as simple as it sounds, is focusing on that, and in that, that is your answer. Sure, I mean, that's the answer, that that we believe is going to change everything. And so, in that, while you might not have all the answers, and I might not have all the answers, and the amount of have all the answers, we know who does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't help but just realize, like I think a lot of times we look at the cross as a sign of, uh, loss, grief, um, all sorts of things. Right, Uh, the enemy's work, you know, betrayal, all this, but it's such a, it's such a sign of vulnerability, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was reminded in, you know, one of my readings, the little cloth that we put around Jesus's waist on our crosses today. That's a cloth of kindness that we put, you know. And so this, this actual symbol of vulnerability, and this, and you see this in Jesus's entire life, he is his followers. See him weep. He tells him he's hungry. You know he gets frustrated. Woe to you. You know, I mean, he's so real as well, as you know. Hey, god is like a daddy. Yeah, let me tell you about this guy. You know he's, he's so vulnerable and I agree that there's so often that, um, our churches, our religious institutions, our places where we feel like we've gotten to button it up, where we've got to present this perfect reality. And I just heard Francis Janna, a sermon this week from him. He said, no, why aren't we revealing our sins more?
Speaker 2:Why aren't we just putting it out there, broken and raw, and saying out loud to God and to one another I need Jesus, I need this reconciliation, redeeming resurrection over and over again, instead of constantly trying to prove we've already got it. Got it, you know, and and I think that is where those relationships are most important right.
Speaker 2:And and to be honest, as a pastor it's hard to find those places where I can trust that right, I try and and to be real and to be honest and to build those relationships and kind of say up front early okay, just a human here, just just just a flawed human here, doing the best that I can, and some days I don't even give my best. You know so that when I fail, right, no one's like huh, they're just like well, yeah, she's so human.
Speaker 4:Well, I think it's funny, like when people find out that you're a pastor and maybe you've already had a relationship with them, that's not what you lead with, you're, you're getting to know and this, oh well, we're not church people. What does that mean? Like I didn't. Nobody's talking about this. You asked what I did for a living and so one of the things that that I've kind of started and I've got a couple of relationships right now that I'm just building just that I've met through through the years of being here and I had a buddy of mine just tell me because you know well me and my family, we're just not church people and I go something. I want to know what that is or what that means, but I don't feel like right now is the time to have that conversation yet, and this was like two months into getting to know them.
Speaker 4:Um and so our kids, our kids do things together, everything. I feel like that. There's that aspect of people look at anybody with the pastor, like title, and they look and go. Oh well, your goal in life is to make sure that I'm in your pew on Sunday morning and I I think I could speak for the table and saying that I don't feel like that's who we are.
Speaker 4:Um, I think that's the way I feel. We are um and and in those things, just understanding that I'm just trying to get to know you, you know the what's the saying of you know, preach the gospel everywhere you go and when you need to use words or when you must use words. Isn't that the goal? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to reveal this. For me it's to reveal a redeeming relationship that Christ offers, that God offers to Christ. You know they say like that's really my life goal and this is the place where I get the beautiful gift to do that with most of my time and energy. You know, and it is, and I tell people all time, I'm a pastor for relationships. You know COVID really affirmed I am not called to a computer screen. This is driving me bananas you don't like Zoom anymore.
Speaker 2:I really don't. It's not my favorite. Not my favorite, we share. You know we had a meeting last week on the freeze and I said I'm having PTSD. We got to get off this thing.
Speaker 4:The cold mist.
Speaker 2:Because of the relationships, the real conversations, the way we show up authentically in each other's lives. That's, that's why I'm a pastor and and what I'm hoping to offer to lead by example and to and to be in right. I need those real relationships. I need those people to see all of me, to rub up against me with their sharp and their soft edges. What, what? I think we talked a little bit about vulnerability and and, and you know, getting getting out of our head. But what else? What else can we do to try and remove those barriers that, again, we've put up?
Speaker 3:Well, I you mentioned again the word barrier, the the ability that we have to create pedestals is a barrier, and not only that, we create them, sometimes people create them for us. I think John just pretty much set a great example. It's like you're sitting there trying to have a relationship with somebody and you got kids the same age, and so you're trying to get together, and then the minute you say you're a pastor whoa, whoa, wait a minute, hold on. I didn't know I was getting into that. I'm not a church person or whatever. And so I think it's almost from a standpoint of what I've found since actually accepting this calling, which I ran from forever. But what I've actually found is that, if I now say that, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm any different. It means people want to see me differently or feel differently about me, and I think that same thing as scribes itself to when people consider themselves to be church people, that people are going to see them differently and they're going to be differently, or you're going to be held to a higher standard. I'm not saying that that's totally wrong. I'm probably going to say it's wrong for the wrong reasons, though, because it, from the standpoint of it, doesn't necessarily again make you better. It makes you basically be willing to profess that you're trying to be a church person. You're trying to do better, and that doesn't mean that the church is the only place you can do that. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that what the church, though, is again going back to this place, that we can come together to create these relationships where we all know we're all really working on the same thing, trying to get better. We're not even at the same levels in the church, even though maybe a lot of people think we are. We're not. There are certainly some people that have been in the church forever, and some that got there yesterday, and we're all over the place in terms of different things we think and how we believe and view the world. So I think that that's.
Speaker 3:It's important, though, that we try not to create these barriers to the truth and to barriers to learning the truth. I think creating a pedestal is, you know, even in our church, we actually have different levels of where we preach from, or we do it different ways and kind of depending on what the venue is and that kind of deal, and so, even though we have that for sight lines or different other reasons. I've never wanted people to think that we create those so that you know like I'm up here and you're down here, never from a perspective of speaking down to anyone, but if we're really speaking to people from a perspective of you know, this is God's word. I say probably every other week that a lot of my messages I'll tell people at the end you know what actually I got through writing this and I felt like I was preaching to myself because I needed to hear there's probably more than you did.
Speaker 3:So I think that if from a perspective of particularly the church maybe religion altogether, but certainly in the church that one of the barriers that we've got to try to eliminate, it is not all together, a set apart thing, from the perspective that we got this figured out and you don't, because I assure you we don't, we're better and you're not.
Speaker 3:That's not what this is about. And in fact there that, to me, eliminates the whole understanding of forgiveness for the things that we may do, and it's almost like and now let's just be honest, we all know that the churches is sometimes it's all worse enemy, particularly as it relates to grace and forgiveness. It's like if I forgive you, then I get to judge you, and it's not about that at all, or it shouldn't be. It should be about the fact that God offers us the ultimate forgiveness. But even then, I've never read where God says once I forgive you, you're never going to mess up again. In fact, I think God's willingness to be forgiven talks about how many times are you to forgive someone, which to me, implies you're going to mess up again. So I believe that one of again, to me, one of the barriers that we create is just the overall persona of the church and what the church ought to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love what you said about this set apart. You know, and I always remind people that, yes, we have taken roles that are set apart, but they're not set apart from the rest of the believers. I would argue we've been set apart from the world to the believers, right, they're set apart. It's not a set apart from you. I'm set apart to you. Right To be in real relationships and to reveal the realness of what God is really up to. What hopes do you have regarding meaningful relationships today, and how do we start to move there?
Speaker 4:I think it's possibly just as easy as the fact that God continues to put people on our paths. As much as I talk about that, you know we're not church people like how cool is that that we have a relationship because our kids are the same age, Like just those doors that continue to be open and they're there. And I think the other piece is just, I am encouraged more and more by more pastors that I meet that understand the imperfections that they have and their willingness to not run away but to lean into God's power in them. So, understanding that those are areas you have to work on, understanding those are areas that that God can show his strength, I mean. And so, um, honestly, I think that I get encouraged by seeing others, Um, as, as probably corny as that might may seem, as we're talking about relationships, I still am fed.
Speaker 4:I'm still fed more by relationships than I am anything. I feel, um, and I think I am able to set myself up in a good manner when I do those things, like my quiet time. I get into the word and I do that, and so I'm, I'm able to be in my best and those relationships, but those relationships feed me through. Um, you know I didn't realize is, as you were talking about. I didn't realize in COVID how much I would miss just walking into the church on Sunday. You got to remember we left and Lily on, our four year old Lily wasn't even crawling and she came back from COVID and was walking Like people didn't know who she was like legitimately, Um, and so I think that just taking that blessing like gift, I understand it's there.
Speaker 3:Hmm, I'm extremely hopeful, and I'm extremely hopeful because I believe Jesus. When he said I have overcome the world. Uh, I believe that to my heart. Uh, I think that when, when we get to the points of particularly not having hope or actually having concerns about things, it is a lack of recognition that God is always going to do a new thing. It may not be the way we would want it done and it certainly may not be how we would see it or what we would do if we were doing it. I think COVID is a prime example.
Speaker 3:There were some folks that, because we weren't able to physically get together and because we had to go to these electronic means to do stuff, that pretty much thought this is the end of the church as we know it, this is the end of organized religion or whatever, and I'm like I've never felt that way.
Speaker 3:I said what we may need to do is just kind of sit back and wait for this new thing God is getting ready to reveal to us and how some stuff is going to be done.
Speaker 3:So one of the even things that I truly think that is a disappointing thing is that we are not going to be able to do it, and I think that is a disappointment for people now is that, as you were here, in a whole lot of different venues, I wish we could do it the way we used to do it, and it's almost like this assumption that the way we used to do things was good for everybody, and it was not in a lot of cases. So I am always anticipating what God is getting ready to do next, because, again, jesus does overcome the world. That gives me a great deal of hope. And throughout that time period when we understand prior to Jesus even being on earth, and even throughout the history of the gospels as we know them, and then even into now today, we have never lived in a world without relationships. They have been different than we might want or how we would see them, but we've never not had them. So I have no reason to believe that we won't continue to have them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love what you said, john, about like noticing the people in your path. When you said, I just immediately thought about how often Jesus was on his way somewhere and someone from the disciples perspective interrupted him, but he was willing to see right, and I also think about that, not only with relationships one on one, like where do I have the potential to build a relationship? Who are some people that are in my path that I'm just breezing past, right, that I'm not even seeing, much less striving to build a relationship with? I also think about how, when he said God is doing a new thing, and um, and, and COVID probably really, uh, really solidified that reality. Is that also Jesus never like commanded a crowd, as in like hey, let's get a crowd together.
Speaker 2:The crowds just found him right. The crowds were already crowding, and so I also wonder to like not only can we be more aware of the of the individuals on our path, but maybe also be aware of the crowds? What are people gathering around? What are they showing up for? Where are, where is their potential, um, or already, to build relationships, and how might we discover how God is moving there?
Speaker 2:Sure, Uh how, where is you know I? I talk a lot about what I imagine it is like at the ball field. Right, you've got these parents who are super passionate and committed about this thing with their kids, and they're showing up multiple days of the week. They're spending hours together, um, sometimes in the heat or the cold or the rain, um, but they're also talking, they're sharing their lives, they're building relationships and, um, who might I say, because it's not happening in the venue, I decided it should happen that it isn't, that God isn't there working right, and and that's not to say that the venues we have are not great, and where else is the spirit moving, um, and so I would agree that that would be my, my hope and my suggestion of steps is like start to see where this is already happening.
Speaker 4:Well, and think about that when you start talking about that. If, if we were, if we were not even enough to say that the three hours of worship that we have on Sunday morning is the only place that people are going to connect, I mean how the people that are inside the church spend more time outside the church than they do in. I just I think that I think that the more, as I said, the more that we look and see, ready to talk, ready to use the word and it was a question with hope I see hope in in things. When other people recognize things that I necessarily don't. It makes me stop in relationships.
Speaker 4:Um, rhett, we were walking in through a store the other day and we're I'm walking with my son and he goes hi, miss Nancy and just keep, and I'm like Miss Nancy is also the crossing guard at his school. Red doesn't walk home. The only time Rhett sees her is when we're pulling into school and she waves and she does that, but he sees her in the school, like during the day. She also happens to have a second job at a store. Because of that, I now talk to Miss Nancy every time I see her. Right, I genuinely feel like if we viewed those little things as blessings in those introductions like you talk about. At the ball field there are thousands of those every day between new people. Yeah, how much there's the connection of God's creation. How much joy could that bring. Just above and beyond hope, just joy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, any last words of hope you'd like to offer with someone who's struggling with this idea of real relationships or relationships with people of faith, with those church people?
Speaker 3:Well, I think I just did. I think mine was again understanding that God is always going to be in the business of doing a new thing. Prepare for what he is going to do next. Continue to hold to the faith that we have and the reason that God did not create this entire universe that we live in to see it just go to ruin. He knew we were going to struggle, because that's who we are. He knew we were going to individually struggle, but I think the fact of the matter is that we've got to hold on to the hope that we have in Jesus and the hope that we have that there are other people that are willing to help you in whatever your situation is. So I am. I'm very like I said. I'm more faithful and hopeful in that than anything I know right now because I've seen it happen. So I would truly tell people that if you truly struggle and don't know where to turn, come to a place where hope is our business and it's what we do.
Speaker 4:I would just encourage everybody, not just people that are inside or outside, like everybody, no matter if you're in church, don't assume. I think that we look at people and assume things every day, and how many relationships does that stop? You're getting to know the real person, taking time, as I said, just to get to know someone rather than thinking that you know who they are. I think it's probably the biggest thing, because if you don't, you're never going to be able to share anything with them.
Speaker 2:And I would argue too not just assumptions about other people, but about yourself that you are worthy to be known. You are worthy to have a real relationship with. You do have something good to offer, both sharp and soft edges. I would agree. So yeah, how can people connect with you directly if they're interested in learning more or talking about these real relationships?
Speaker 3:Well, you know we are pretty much at the church most of the time. You can certainly stop by, call 281-485-1466 or go our website fumcparallelandorg, where we can all be reached collectively and individually. Would love an opportunity to talk to anyone that needs to have a deeper conversation about stuff in terms of where they are and where we are. So that's pretty much how you get us.
Speaker 4:I would say it's spring, so if I'm not going to be at the church, I'm probably going to be at Parallel and Little Leagues.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, thank you both for this real conversation and thank you for tuning in to this episode of Real Talk. We look forward to seeing you next time. Until then, take care. Real Talk podcast is produced by First United Methodist Church, paralleland in collaboration with Paralleland Podcast Studios, recorded here in Paralleland, texas. We invite you to check out our website at fumcparallelandorg to check out additional events and opportunities for you to engage in real talk about faith and relationships.